Here is the fundamental problem with Intelligent Design that not a lot of people have really talked about yet. It shows that Intelligent Design falls victim to its own underlying premise, and that it is a non-sensical, absurd explanation for life that should be kept far away from the classroom.
(And might I add ... By: DialetheianMode. on 21 Nov 08, 04:40:02 (And might I add that the creator being would need to have come back those untold number of times AND left no measurable evidence of his existence)
Just keep faith and science separate. They are incompatible and operate on different discursive levels.
If, alwaysending, scientists were to find tomorrow the God Vishnu sleeping deep in the Mariana Trench, would you stop believing in Christianity and switch to the Hindu religion? I didn't think so.
*infinitium
Also ... By: DialetheianMode. on 21 Nov 08, 04:21:54 *infinitium
Also, ID Theory also needs to reckon with the anthropological record. The oldest human (homo sapiens sapiens) fossils date back to around 200,000 years ago. The oldest fossil of a vertebrate is over 560,000,000 years old. The creator would have had to create the oldest life forms in the Archaean era, then come back an untold number of times to create hundreds of new species. All the evolutionary process would need to do is work continuously, as scientists proposed it has.
You can believe ... By: DialetheianMode. on 21 Nov 08, 03:54:44 You can believe that God made man in seven days; that's your choice. But what isn't your choice is whether ID is a valid theory or not. Evolution is logically self-consistent and the current science in the field supports it--it does not need to posit any other entities to explain life other than the process itself. ID theory explains all life by a designer; but that designer, being alive itself, must also be explained; thus, another designer, ad initium.
what have we ... By: alwaysending. on 04 Nov 08, 00:40:22 what have we observed about what happened BEFORE the "big bang"? or why we're the only known object in the universe with the exact specifications to create life that ultimately came to be humans with souls with thoughts as this? I don't recall any apes questioning life? Is that not in itself proof of a "higher knowledge" than that of animals other than humans? and where would that kind of knowledge possibly have come from?
I'm also a little ... By: qdogg224. on 01 Nov 08, 06:00:35 I'm also a little confused by this question. Let me start by saying that evolution says nothing about what's "out there". By definition, evolution can only take place where there's already life. Also, evolution is a semi-deterministic process, so to say that it's "strickly [sic] by chanse [sic]" isn't right either.
However, neither is the point. Evolution predicts things we observe. Creationism doesn't. That's part of the reason why evolution is science and creationism is religion.
the bible says we ... By: alwaysending. on 31 Oct 08, 23:08:58 the bible says we were created in his eyes. look, i don't even pretend to know the answer as to what exactly is out there, but I DO have a belief that is better than the NOTHING that evolution ultimately is. no way has all this come to be what it has strickly by chanse or luck of a created universe with this many factors combined all to create a PERFECT world for us beings to live, have you found any others my friend?
it is tried and ... By: GodKillerAtheist. on 30 Oct 08, 11:25:54 it is tried and tested go to school and find out its simple only a moron that was home schooled and force fed the bible would dissagree
Your question is ... By: qdogg224. on 30 Oct 08, 05:38:09 Your question is very surreally-worded, so if I misinterpret your question, feel free to clarify what you mean.
I THINK you're trying to say that the definition of hominid is arbitrary. However, hominid is a family that is based on a set of traits, of which the great apes, including man, exhibit.
We could say that these shared characteristics mean nothing, but evolution predicts that it is so because they had a common ancestor.
How does creationism explain these shared characteristics?
man is a hominid, ... By: alwaysending. on 30 Oct 08, 02:35:24 man is a hominid, which is a family of ape
well, beliving in God, who's family of species is that again? did MAN make up species or did GOD again? GOD ALMIGHTY sure didn't name anywhere in the bible I've read that man was called hominid
not that mental ... By: alwaysending. on 30 Oct 08, 02:31:50 not that mental where you can convince me that evolution is tried and tested jackass!
seriously are you ... By: GodKillerAtheist. on 28 Oct 08, 23:22:08 seriously are you mental?
ts not a THEORY its ... By: alwaysending. on 28 Oct 08, 21:48:28 ts not a THEORY its well tested and repeated in a lab every time. Unlike ID that is just a scam buy some cult to get their beliefs forcefully taught to everyone
sounds like you're saying EXACTLY that.
be more concise with your criticisms of my comments and I won't have to reply something back to you then that doesn't make sense to you.
of course, there are OBVIOUSLY a lot of things that don't make sense to you, else you wouldn't be here arguing a stupid point with me
Um I never said ... By: GodKillerAtheist. on 28 Oct 08, 18:32:41 Um I never said anyone has moron. You should learn to read a post before you reply to it it makes you look like a jack ass not me.
really? I had no ... By: alwaysending. on 28 Oct 08, 18:13:02 really? I had no idea they created life and an ENTIRE FUCKING UNIVERSE in a lab already!
I am a dumbass I guess!?!?!
.....you, jackass
its not a THEORY ... By: GodKillerAtheist. on 28 Oct 08, 13:47:50 its not a THEORY its well tested and repeated in a lab every time. Unlike ID that is just a scam buy some cult to get their beliefs forcefully taught to everyone
i've heard them say ... By: GodKillerAtheist. on 28 Oct 08, 13:41:22 i've heard them say well god is out side of time so he has always been, but that's not possible unless god is a microscopic string in the 10th dimension. Even if he was that's a horrible thing to say about your god that he is smaller then the stuff atoms are made out of...
wow. that sound so ... By: sdinger74. on 21 Aug 08, 16:42:22 wow. that sound so similar to the same argument i've been hearing since 2nd grade :)
who made the maker? and the makers maker. i think u fail to grasp the arguments between ID and Evolution.
Your statement is ... By: HeavyOrdnance. on 04 Aug 08, 23:37:23 Your statement is also non-applicable because the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics requires a closed system.
What you say is ... By: qdogg224. on 04 Jul 08, 08:28:33 What you say is incorrect-- man is a hominid, which is a family of ape.
Less flippantly, evolution doesn't disobey the 2nd law of thermodynamics. The evolutionary model contends that animals with traits better suited to an environment tend to survive to pass those traits down, whereas those whose traits are harmful to an environment tend to not live to pass those harmful traits on to subsequent generations.
So the opposite of evolution, in fact, does contradict the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Every thing goes ... By: barendse1. on 03 Jul 08, 06:14:39 Every thing goes from order to disorder. apes don't become man, they die and rot and turn into dirt.
Oh.
You're trolling ... By: TwilightWonder. on 26 Jun 08, 16:20:31 Oh.
You're trolling.
I see. I thought you were serious.
Then you said that thing about the theory and I realized you're just kidding. Thank goodness.
(On the incredibly unlikely chance you are serious though, learn what a scientific theory is)
"And for that ... By: alwaysending. on 26 Jun 08, 15:03:11 "And for that matter, no biologist worth his/her salt believes in ID."
WOW, great job showing your inability to accept others beliefs in the world. Nice one sided view you got there buddy, I bet you live a great, fulfilled life LMFAO! It maybe a very tried and tested "THEORY" but, as you say clearly....its STILL just a THEORY no REAL PROOF.
So you believe what you like, but don't try to tell others their opinions are "outdated" or wrong...THAT makes YOU look foolish
I love how there ... By: sofakingkewl3. on 26 Jun 08, 14:39:45 I love how there were no comments for 5 months then people just started posting again.
Idiot. The "holes" ... By: garthwinath. on 26 Jun 08, 13:47:21 Idiot. The "holes" within evolution that you claim to be there are OUTSIDE of evolution. Evolution makes NO claims whatsoever about the origin of life, it accounts for the DIVERSITY of life. The study of the origin of life is called abiogenesis. A seperate scientific expertise.
Discrediting evolution without even knowing what it is...
And I won't even go into that whole "there's no proof thing" cause you're right there - if you completely ignore the fossil record, genetics and all of science
this man's argument ... By: barendse1. on 26 Jun 08, 04:41:16 this man's argument to disprove creation using "holes" in it's explination is silly because evolution itself has many, many, holes in it. what was evolutions first cause? what proof do we have of billion year old ooz changing by random chance to somehow better itself when itself has not the intelligence to understand nor the power to know, "i need to evolve." or "i need to change." there is zero fact for macro-evolution. prove it.
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By: DialetheianMode. on 21 Nov 08, 04:40:02
(And might I add that the creator being would need to have come back those untold number of times AND left no measurable evidence of his existence) Just keep faith and science separate. They are incompatible and operate on different discursive levels. If, alwaysending, scientists were to find tomorrow the God Vishnu sleeping deep in the Mariana Trench, would you stop believing in Christianity and switch to the Hindu religion? I didn't think so.
By: DialetheianMode. on 21 Nov 08, 04:21:54
*infinitium Also, ID Theory also needs to reckon with the anthropological record. The oldest human (homo sapiens sapiens) fossils date back to around 200,000 years ago. The oldest fossil of a vertebrate is over 560,000,000 years old. The creator would have had to create the oldest life forms in the Archaean era, then come back an untold number of times to create hundreds of new species. All the evolutionary process would need to do is work continuously, as scientists proposed it has.
By: DialetheianMode. on 21 Nov 08, 03:54:44
You can believe that God made man in seven days; that's your choice. But what isn't your choice is whether ID is a valid theory or not. Evolution is logically self-consistent and the current science in the field supports it--it does not need to posit any other entities to explain life other than the process itself. ID theory explains all life by a designer; but that designer, being alive itself, must also be explained; thus, another designer, ad initium.
By: alwaysending. on 04 Nov 08, 00:40:22
what have we observed about what happened BEFORE the "big bang"? or why we're the only known object in the universe with the exact specifications to create life that ultimately came to be humans with souls with thoughts as this? I don't recall any apes questioning life? Is that not in itself proof of a "higher knowledge" than that of animals other than humans? and where would that kind of knowledge possibly have come from?
By: qdogg224. on 01 Nov 08, 06:00:35
I'm also a little confused by this question. Let me start by saying that evolution says nothing about what's "out there". By definition, evolution can only take place where there's already life. Also, evolution is a semi-deterministic process, so to say that it's "strickly [sic] by chanse [sic]" isn't right either. However, neither is the point. Evolution predicts things we observe. Creationism doesn't. That's part of the reason why evolution is science and creationism is religion.
By: alwaysending. on 31 Oct 08, 23:08:58
the bible says we were created in his eyes. look, i don't even pretend to know the answer as to what exactly is out there, but I DO have a belief that is better than the NOTHING that evolution ultimately is. no way has all this come to be what it has strickly by chanse or luck of a created universe with this many factors combined all to create a PERFECT world for us beings to live, have you found any others my friend?
By: GodKillerAtheist. on 30 Oct 08, 11:25:54
it is tried and tested go to school and find out its simple only a moron that was home schooled and force fed the bible would dissagree
By: qdogg224. on 30 Oct 08, 05:38:09
Your question is very surreally-worded, so if I misinterpret your question, feel free to clarify what you mean. I THINK you're trying to say that the definition of hominid is arbitrary. However, hominid is a family that is based on a set of traits, of which the great apes, including man, exhibit. We could say that these shared characteristics mean nothing, but evolution predicts that it is so because they had a common ancestor. How does creationism explain these shared characteristics?
By: alwaysending. on 30 Oct 08, 02:35:24
man is a hominid, which is a family of ape well, beliving in God, who's family of species is that again? did MAN make up species or did GOD again? GOD ALMIGHTY sure didn't name anywhere in the bible I've read that man was called hominid
By: alwaysending. on 30 Oct 08, 02:31:50
not that mental where you can convince me that evolution is tried and tested jackass!
By: GodKillerAtheist. on 28 Oct 08, 23:22:08
seriously are you mental?
By: alwaysending. on 28 Oct 08, 21:48:28
ts not a THEORY its well tested and repeated in a lab every time. Unlike ID that is just a scam buy some cult to get their beliefs forcefully taught to everyone sounds like you're saying EXACTLY that. be more concise with your criticisms of my comments and I won't have to reply something back to you then that doesn't make sense to you. of course, there are OBVIOUSLY a lot of things that don't make sense to you, else you wouldn't be here arguing a stupid point with me
By: GodKillerAtheist. on 28 Oct 08, 18:32:41
Um I never said anyone has moron. You should learn to read a post before you reply to it it makes you look like a jack ass not me.
By: alwaysending. on 28 Oct 08, 18:13:02
really? I had no idea they created life and an ENTIRE FUCKING UNIVERSE in a lab already! I am a dumbass I guess!?!?! .....you, jackass
By: GodKillerAtheist. on 28 Oct 08, 13:47:50
its not a THEORY its well tested and repeated in a lab every time. Unlike ID that is just a scam buy some cult to get their beliefs forcefully taught to everyone
By: GodKillerAtheist. on 28 Oct 08, 13:41:22
i've heard them say well god is out side of time so he has always been, but that's not possible unless god is a microscopic string in the 10th dimension. Even if he was that's a horrible thing to say about your god that he is smaller then the stuff atoms are made out of...
By: sdinger74. on 21 Aug 08, 16:42:22
wow. that sound so similar to the same argument i've been hearing since 2nd grade :) who made the maker? and the makers maker. i think u fail to grasp the arguments between ID and Evolution.
By: HeavyOrdnance. on 04 Aug 08, 23:37:23
Your statement is also non-applicable because the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics requires a closed system.
By: qdogg224. on 04 Jul 08, 08:28:33
What you say is incorrect-- man is a hominid, which is a family of ape. Less flippantly, evolution doesn't disobey the 2nd law of thermodynamics. The evolutionary model contends that animals with traits better suited to an environment tend to survive to pass those traits down, whereas those whose traits are harmful to an environment tend to not live to pass those harmful traits on to subsequent generations. So the opposite of evolution, in fact, does contradict the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
By: barendse1. on 03 Jul 08, 06:14:39
Every thing goes from order to disorder. apes don't become man, they die and rot and turn into dirt.
By: TwilightWonder. on 26 Jun 08, 16:20:31
Oh. You're trolling. I see. I thought you were serious. Then you said that thing about the theory and I realized you're just kidding. Thank goodness. (On the incredibly unlikely chance you are serious though, learn what a scientific theory is)
By: alwaysending. on 26 Jun 08, 15:03:11
"And for that matter, no biologist worth his/her salt believes in ID." WOW, great job showing your inability to accept others beliefs in the world. Nice one sided view you got there buddy, I bet you live a great, fulfilled life LMFAO! It maybe a very tried and tested "THEORY" but, as you say clearly....its STILL just a THEORY no REAL PROOF. So you believe what you like, but don't try to tell others their opinions are "outdated" or wrong...THAT makes YOU look foolish
By: sofakingkewl3. on 26 Jun 08, 14:39:45
I love how there were no comments for 5 months then people just started posting again.
By: garthwinath. on 26 Jun 08, 13:47:21
Idiot. The "holes" within evolution that you claim to be there are OUTSIDE of evolution. Evolution makes NO claims whatsoever about the origin of life, it accounts for the DIVERSITY of life. The study of the origin of life is called abiogenesis. A seperate scientific expertise. Discrediting evolution without even knowing what it is... And I won't even go into that whole "there's no proof thing" cause you're right there - if you completely ignore the fossil record, genetics and all of science
By: barendse1. on 26 Jun 08, 04:41:16
this man's argument to disprove creation using "holes" in it's explination is silly because evolution itself has many, many, holes in it. what was evolutions first cause? what proof do we have of billion year old ooz changing by random chance to somehow better itself when itself has not the intelligence to understand nor the power to know, "i need to evolve." or "i need to change." there is zero fact for macro-evolution. prove it.